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rejoiceitssusan

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Re: The wars we're involved in...
« on: August 17, 2010, 12:48:32 pm »
Yeah war is horrible. and pointless. The state of our country is constantly depressing me. Especially that last part "We have no healthcare, a terrible education system, people still being oppressed and living in the ghettos." Plus my uncle is in Iraq at the moment.
Also that website is really interesting, thanks for sharing.

Matt

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Re: The wars we're involved in...
« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2010, 01:03:07 pm »
A! N! A! R! C! H! Y!

rejoiceitssusan

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Re: The wars we're involved in...
« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2010, 06:16:06 pm »
Your uncle is a brave man. I don't blame the soldiers for the war. I have nothing but the utmost respect for them and thank them for their willingness to defend our land. The leaders of our country and their underhanded ways and motives are what put the brave men and women of our armed forces there, and the reason that so many of them have lost their lives or have come home unable to integrate themselves back into our society due to the things that they've seen or been forced to do in the face of combat.
I hope that he comes home safe, along with all of our other troops.

Thanks. (: Yeah a lot of punks are like 'don't support the troops! blah blah blah' but they would die for you and your right to not support them. So even if you don't agree with how they do it, I think they still deserve respect. Most of them don't support the war anyway.
The worst thing ever to me is during the vietnam war hippies would send hate mail to the soldiers fighting. Even if they were drafted. What bullshit.

CultureRevolution

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Re: The wars we're involved in...
« Reply #3 on: August 17, 2010, 09:52:25 pm »
I've been thinking a lot lately about the wars that we're involved in...Whether you know it or not, our country is still deeply embroiled in battle in two different countries (Iraq and Afghanistan).
It's my personal opinion that we never belonged in Iraq in the first place. George W. Bush (Hitler, The Antichrist, whatever you want call him...) This is stupid and uncalled for, Hitler created a world war and made internment camps and death camps, Bush did not come close to that and saying he is like him is quite offensive. and our government definitely had an agenda when we invaded them. It didn't hurt that their oil reserves were rich and plentiful either...
Yes, we were attacked on 9/11, but by a few men claiming allegiance to a group known as Al-Quieda.  As you know, their leader, Osama Bin Laden still has not been found, put on trial, or killed 10 years later. What have we accomplished? Endless numbers of dead citizens murdered by our troops...Thousands of our men and women killed...And trillions and trillions of our dollars spent.
I guess the things that bother me the most are that when Obama was campaigning he said that most of troops would be coming home by now. The last report that I heard was that he was planning on bringing starting to bring some of them home (handing over control to the Iraqi people) in 2014. During the end of Bush it was agreed that the US would hand over power by the end of 2011. Also, the fact that the media hides the fact that we are even fighting wars anymore. If you turn on the news for the next week on your idiot box and let it run non-stop, I'm willing to bet you that you won't hear a single word about our country being in either of those countries. You'll hear about Lindsay Lohan being in and out of prison and what she was wearing once an hour, but not a word about what's happening to our armed forces.This isn't even close to true, every channel talks about the wars and many analysts talk about how they disagree with the wars. Lastly, you won't hear anything about the taxpayer's money that's being spent. Do you have any idea how much money is being spent? Go to www.costofwar.com and see for yourself how much we're losing every second...
Our country is in the depths of a recession, almost in a depression. We (the tax payers) just bailed out the banks (from a problem that their own greed got themselves into) while they're busy taking away hard working families' homes. The cost of living keeps on going up, but wages don't. We have no healthcare, a terrible education system, people still being oppressed and living in the ghettos. How can this be justified?
Too many of us are complacent and we don't have our say.  

Mind if I weigh in on your shpeel, thanks. Also I'm pretty sure Matt was kidding.

Matt

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Re: The wars we're involved in...
« Reply #4 on: August 17, 2010, 10:02:12 pm »
I was kidding. I am an anarchist, I'm just not your typical punx Captain Anarchy.

CultureRevolution

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Re: The wars we're involved in...
« Reply #5 on: August 17, 2010, 10:08:11 pm »
I was kidding. I am an anarchist, I'm just not your typical punx Captain Anarchy.


rejoiceitssusan

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Re: The wars we're involved in...
« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2010, 01:04:36 pm »
"but many people believe that he was it, and many people refer to him and compare him to Hitler."

So? that doesn't make it a legitimate claim. Bush didn't try to exterminate an entire race.

---

Where'd you copy + paste that middle part from?

"From the beginning, it has been led and controlled by Marxists and other dictators who hate freedom and Christianity. Everything the UN touches turns to ashes. The blood of millions of freedom-loving people drips from its hands."

....Are you serious right now?
Also, I thought you weren't Christian. Who cares if they hate Christianity?

"freedom-hating socialists and Muslim dictators"

O_O
that's some republican talk if  I ever saw it...

Matt

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Re: The wars we're involved in...
« Reply #7 on: August 18, 2010, 03:07:00 pm »
Matt, I just wanted to hear your views on anarchy or being an anarchist, how to achieve anarchy, etc...A lot of punks think that "anarchy" just means no rules, no laws, etc...And obviously that's not realistic and would never work or be an option.
Not giving you a hard time, just wanted to hear what you had to say.
Vague as hell? I am an anti-capitalist first and an anarchist second. If there was a way to destroy capitalism while not having an anarchy and have a somewhat free society, I'd look into it. However, I don't believe there is. People say that anarchy couldn't work, I think it's the only thing that could work. Capitalism sure as hell doesn't work. Anarchism has worked plenty of times in the past.

How to reach anarchism? Educate the working class about it, and hold mass worker strikes with no demands. Make the government irrelevant because the community takes care of itself. Refuse the cops.

Undertaker Sheep

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Re: The wars we're involved in...
« Reply #8 on: August 18, 2010, 03:19:35 pm »
What's bad with Marxists, anyway? Communism as Marx had intended it was awesome, the way people like Stalin perverted it was close to blasphemy. Communism was supposed to be about freedom, not doing what ever Mr. Dictator says.

Anywho, I don't really support al the Bush bashing either. I think blaming him is giving him too much credit. I just can not believe that he had any power whatsoever during his time as a president. It all seems like some greater thing, in which he was just a pawn.
Hitler though, he deserves some credit. He was the mastermind behind it all (him and Goebels), and in contrast of Bush he was a genius! I disapprove of the whole taking over the world and killing millions of innocent people, but man that guy did some great things for Germany as well.

Christianity, I don't hate Christians or anything but...I would have expected us to have 'out-evolved' religion by now. It's halting our progress as a species at times.

Anarchy is lame and doesn't work. Not with this many people walking around. The basic ideas of freedom and such are cool, but it just doesn't work at all. Whether we like it or not, people need to be controlled. Because without control we are nothing but animals, and if we don't want to be like that then we need to be held back. I'd rather see us being held back by the people around us than by the people above us.
Most anarchists are nothing but punk rockers who need 'another thing' to stand out from the rest. Anarchy has gone from an ideal of peace to an ideal of rebellion.
Thom - So what's the vibe like, in this room of power?
Garth - It's uuuuh positive, Thom, it's very positive
Thom - I sense that there's gonna be some tracking... some bass-tracking.
Garth - You sense that? You're a prophet, Thom

Undertaker Sheep

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Re: The wars we're involved in...
« Reply #9 on: August 18, 2010, 03:21:40 pm »
Matt, I just wanted to hear your views on anarchy or being an anarchist, how to achieve anarchy, etc...A lot of punks think that "anarchy" just means no rules, no laws, etc...And obviously that's not realistic and would never work or be an option.
Not giving you a hard time, just wanted to hear what you had to say.
Vague as hell? I am an anti-capitalist first and an anarchist second. If there was a way to destroy capitalism while not having an anarchy and have a somewhat free society, I'd look into it. However, I don't believe there is. People say that anarchy couldn't work, I think it's the only thing that could work. Capitalism sure as hell doesn't work. Anarchism has worked plenty of times in the past.

How to reach anarchism? Educate the working class about it, and hold mass worker strikes with no demands. Make the government irrelevant because the community takes care of itself. Refuse the cops.
Community taking care of itself? Mass worker strikes? Anti-Captalism? Sounds like good ol' Marx to my ears
Thom - So what's the vibe like, in this room of power?
Garth - It's uuuuh positive, Thom, it's very positive
Thom - I sense that there's gonna be some tracking... some bass-tracking.
Garth - You sense that? You're a prophet, Thom

Matt

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Re: The wars we're involved in...
« Reply #10 on: August 18, 2010, 04:53:00 pm »
Matt, I just wanted to hear your views on anarchy or being an anarchist, how to achieve anarchy, etc...A lot of punks think that "anarchy" just means no rules, no laws, etc...And obviously that's not realistic and would never work or be an option.
Not giving you a hard time, just wanted to hear what you had to say.
Vague as hell? I am an anti-capitalist first and an anarchist second. If there was a way to destroy capitalism while not having an anarchy and have a somewhat free society, I'd look into it. However, I don't believe there is. People say that anarchy couldn't work, I think it's the only thing that could work. Capitalism sure as hell doesn't work. Anarchism has worked plenty of times in the past.

How to reach anarchism? Educate the working class about it, and hold mass worker strikes with no demands. Make the government irrelevant because the community takes care of itself. Refuse the cops.
Community taking care of itself? Mass worker strikes? Anti-Captalism? Sounds like good ol' Marx to my ears
Fuck marxists.

Matt

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Re: The wars we're involved in...
« Reply #11 on: August 18, 2010, 05:06:00 pm »
What's bad with Marxists, anyway? Communism as Marx had intended it was awesome, the way people like Stalin perverted it was close to blasphemy. Communism was supposed to be about freedom, not doing what ever Mr. Dictator says.
Marxism is oppression. Whenever there is a government, there will be oppression. Honestly, Lenin and Stalin were both awful and if you didn't see them coming you're delusional.
Anarchy is lame and doesn't work. Not with this many people walking around. The basic ideas of freedom and such are cool, but it just doesn't work at all. Whether we like it or not, people need to be controlled. Because without control we are nothing but animals, and if we don't want to be like that then we need to be held back. I'd rather see us being held back by the people around us than by the people above us.
Most anarchists are nothing but punk rockers who need 'another thing' to stand out from the rest. Anarchy has gone from an ideal of peace to an ideal of rebellion.
ZOMG ITS LAME!!! I GUESS I SHOULDN'T BE AN ANARCHIST CUZ ITS NOT COOL!!!
How doesn't it work? Human beings were anarchists for a long time before hierarchy was developed. Marxism doesn't work. Capitalism doesn't work. Monarchy doesn't work. Feudalism doesn't work. Socialism doesn't work.
I believe that human beings can take care of themselves in communities without the need for hierarchy and leaders. What's the difference between the people above us and around us then? No, most anarchists aren't punx. Some get into it from that, but most understand what it means. Most research.

Matt

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Re: The wars we're involved in...
« Reply #12 on: August 18, 2010, 06:09:11 pm »
That is bullshit.

CultureRevolution

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Re: The wars we're involved in...
« Reply #13 on: August 18, 2010, 06:20:17 pm »
 
"This is stupid and uncalled for, Hitler created a world war and made internment camps and death camps, Bush did not come close to that and saying he is like him is quite offensive."
We are all entitled to our opinions, and you are certainly entitled to yours...
I said "Hitler, The Antichrist, whatever YOU want to call him", referring to him as what other people refer to him as. Not necessarily what I refer to him as. I don't believe in god or the bible so I don't believe in an "Antichrist", but many people believe that he was it, and many people refer to him and compare him to Hitler.
The phrase "whatever you want to call him" is always used to express your views in a way that isnt first person, like SWIM. It's just a way to make a space between you and your views by making it look like other people agree with you by putting  the word:you. And if you don't think he is then DONT PUT IT THERE! I don't think Obama is good, but I wouldn't say oh yeah Obama (or HITLER or THE ANTICHRIST whatever ya wanna call him....) because I don't believe that he is those things. And many people, or you?....
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I don't know if you were a G.W.B. supporter, or if the use of the name "Hitler" offended you, but what would you call what Bush did? Can you justify it in some way? He lied to the American people and he attacked a country under false pretenses. Where are these "Weapons of mass destruction"?
No, George Bush didn't start a world war, nor are there death camps...We marched into a country and took it over, causing more havoc and disarray than you can imagine. The entire country is a warzone where innocent civilians are "casualties".
I never supposrted Bush, and I think throwing around the name Hitler to describe any politician you don't like is stupid and offensive. I call what he did an abuse of power, even though he was obviously not in charge, he wasn't the ones making the decision. I can't justify it, why do you think i'm on his side? WHat did I say that made me look like a Bush supporter? OMG I DIDN'T KNOW THERE WEREN'T WMDS I NEVER HEARD ABOUT IT ON TV, OR IN BOOKS, OR IN ARTICLES! I know exactly what the Bush administration did, don't lecture me on stuff I've known for years. And actually, we took over 2 countries and made civilians free game, neither can be justified.
   
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Initially, the invasion of Iraq was sold to the American people on the premise that Iraq posed an immediate risk to the safety and security of the United States. We were told that Iraq had amassed Weapons of Mass Destruction (WMD) and if we did not attack first, we were sure to be victimized by terrorist attacks from Iraq.
    Americans were also told that there were significant ties between Iraq and Al Qaeda. It was even propounded that Saddam Hussein was responsible for the terrorist attacks on September 11, 2001.
    Since the completion of the invasion, however, the Bush administration has recanted every single reason it originally gave for waging war against Iraq except the vague explanation that we were "fighting terrorism." No WMD were found. Bush's aides confessed that no connection between Iraq and Al Qaeda has been established, and Bush himself admitted that Hussein had nothing to do with the September 11 terrorist attacks.
 
So, why did we really go to war? Some suggest that oilmen Bush and Cheney wanted to procure Iraq's rich oil fields. Others say it was revenge for Daddy Bush's embarrassment that had been lingering from Gulf War I.
    However, in his recent speech before the United Nations, President Bush revealed the real reason we invaded Iraq. He said plainly that the reason we invaded Iraq was "to defend the peace and the credibility of the United Nations."
    There you have it from the lips of Bush himself. The reason America went to war with Iraq was to defend the credibility of the United Nations. This must come as quite a shock to all those people who thought we went to war to defend the security of the United States.
That is NOT the reason we went to war. We went to war because Bush and his administration wanted to and used 9/11 and terrorism and WMDs as scapegoats to go to war there. Bush only likes the UN because they backed the invasion of Iraq because of Colin Powells speech in the UN. Why would you believe what Bush says now and the reasons he says now but not the old reasons? Oh right because you have a bias, you don't like the UN so you choose that reason as the real reason we entered Iraq. Please.
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As to the credibility of the UN, I didn't know it had any! Since its inception, the UN has done nothing but oppose the interests of the United States. From the beginning, it has been led and controlled by Marxists and other dictators who hate freedom and Christianity. Everything the UN touches turns to ashes. The blood of millions of freedom-loving people drips from its hands. Mr. President, the United Nations has no credibility worth defending!
If our President and Congress were truly dedicated to defending the interests and security of the United States, they would expel the United Nations from U.S. soil and remove America from UN membership. They would also tell the freedom-hating socialists and Muslim dictators within the UN to politely "get lost," and they would start treating the United States as an independent, sovereign country again!
    There will, no doubt, be enemy-nations that America must fight in the future; America has many enemies. When it becomes necessary to send our young men to fight and die, however, it would be nice if we knew they were fighting, not to defend the credibility of the United Nations, but to defend the security of the United States of America.
You realize that the US is one of the five consistent members of the security Council in the UN right? We have more power than most countries in the UN because of that, and the UN backed bushes invasion of Iraq, they take our side alot. And stfu about that freedom hating, christian hating, marxist dictator shit, you are a right wing asshole. You are a nationalist who puts his country before others. And where the fuck did you get the Muslim dictator shit? And freedom hating Socialists? This aint the 50's, this isnt a tea party convention, Socialists don't hate freedom, Socialism is a mch better way of attaining freedom, the Government doesnt give a shit about your freedom. And the UN isnt actually IN the US, it is in a nuetral spot, it is within NYC because it is a city that is very easy to get into, by train or car or plane or whatever, YOU DO KNOW part of the UN is in the Netherlands right? And that crap about America must fight and die for freedom is shit. We don't need to fight for shit, we only have enemies because we fucked them over, either economically, or militarilly. And wtf? Just young men? No women? Was that article written in the 50's or something?
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Durng the end of Bush it was agreed that the US would hand over power by the end of 2011.
Yes, it was "agreed" that the US would hand over power by the end of 2011, with the troops withdrawing slowly...BUT, they are unable to withdraw when there are still insurgencies and chaos. The report that I heard said that we might have to stay there training their armed forces and keeping control of things (in Afghanistan as well until 2014 and possibly longer.) A friend of mine that's in the ARMY told me that we'll never leave there completely. How much that means, I can't say for sure, but he did a tour in Iraq and a tour in Afghanistan and he's still training troops to go over there...
This isn't even close to true, every channel talks about the wars and many analysts talk about how they disagree with the wars.
I know that there are plenty of "round table" news shows that have analysts talking about the war, the economy, etc...I was talking about newscasts that you see everyday, the ones that pop up in-between television shows and at 6:00 and 11:00 every night. The ones that you're talking about are specialized and aimed at a certain demographic that watches them. I was talking about your run of the mill news for people who watch regular t.v. and don't hear anything about the fact that our country is still involved in wars. It's hard to get your point across on the internet, when you're not actually talking in person. Many things can be taken the wrong way.

You made very valid points and I respect you for reading what I had to say and responding. I was trying to voice my opinion and open up some dialogue, and that's what I did. Thank you.
Ok 1st off, we never fully leave a county, we still occupy Germany and Korea, this is nothing new. You realize that those people on the news don't have the expertise to say anything about politics excet how to say the death toll right? If you wanna hear real news watch REAL NEWS.

Matt

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Re: The wars we're involved in...
« Reply #14 on: August 18, 2010, 06:36:18 pm »
HIDE YO WIFE, HIDE YO KIDS AND HIDE YO HUSBAND CUZ THEY RAPIN ERRYBODY OUT HERE!!!

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